00:00:03:09 - 00:00:38:23 Unknown Well, hello to all our listeners today and welcome to TAMK's Alumni Ambassador Podcast, which is, the first in the series. I'm Kirsi Popova of them, and I work as a senior advisor here at Tamk. Currently, my main responsibility is to coordinate alumni affairs, stakeholder relations. And, that includes managing the alumni register, publishing a alumni newsletter, coordinating Toms Alumni month, alumni of the year campaign. 00:00:39:02 - 00:01:19:20 Unknown Just to mention a few things. As part of my job. I'm also involved in the City of Paris Ambassador program and more precisely, its Alumni Ambassadors Support program. the founder ambassador program, it's coordinated by the city, and its main aim is to, gather together a group of people who, are inspiring and influential individuals living in, in the city, who share the love for tomber and are willing to create opportunities for tomber to become a real international city. 00:01:19:22 - 00:01:56:19 Unknown So I'm gonna alumni ambassadors, are basically, alumni of the higher education community. And, they have either graduated from the Tom or from the University of Tom. And, their main job is to promote the interaction between the higher education institutions and surrounding society to support teaching, research work, and international business cooperation. In addition, they help in increasing the international visibility of city of Tom. 00:01:56:19 - 00:02:27:15 Unknown But I when we go abroad, say for the exhibitions, and you know, promote the higher education opportunities we have here. So, as part of their duties, the alumni ambassadors also attend different kinds of meetings and events organized by the city. One good example is the annual mayor's, reception at the town hall, where all the city ambassadors gather together once a year. 00:02:27:17 - 00:02:54:19 Unknown So, as I already mentioned, the alumni ambassadors are part of the wider ambassador network, which is coordinated by the city and then the network consists of altogether five different subgroups. So those of you, who are interested in this thematic, since I won't go into much detail here. you can go to the Tom, website. 00:02:54:21 - 00:03:21:19 Unknown Tom, dot fi, and look for the Tom Barrett ambassador program there, and you will find more information. But coming back to, today's theme and my guests, I would like to present them here with me today in the studio. he's to take look at on on the college who's, who are both Tom's alumni ambassadors for the year, 2024. 00:03:21:21 - 00:03:56:13 Unknown And they started in their posts in January. So the ambassador program is new to them. So welcome. Thank you so much. Thank you. today we're going to discuss a little about what makes Tom Borough such a good place to study the cooperation between Tom and regional working life and internationalization of higher education. Finally, we ponder together what could be done to boost the employment of international talents in Pergamon, while more international students are coming to Tom Pratt than ever before. 00:03:56:18 - 00:04:24:04 Unknown It is a known fact that many of them suffer from finding trainee placements during their studies, let alone jobs upon graduation. While majority of the international students indicate their willingness to stay in Finland after finishing their studies, the lack of job opportunities often hinders them doing so. So how am I gone on? See you. You're both very welcome, and it's nice that you found the time in your busy schedules to join me today and Hanukkah. 00:04:24:05 - 00:04:52:10 Unknown Maybe you will start on say few things about yourself. Who are you and about your study background. Hello? yeah. Hanukkah. And, I'm originally from Sri Lanka, a little island, Sri Lanka, south of India. And, I studied environmental engineering at Umbc and graduated in 2023. And now I work as a, compliance engineer concurrent with Vinca. 00:04:52:11 - 00:05:23:19 Unknown full time. And when when was it that you come to Finland? I came to Finland in 2019, during autumn. Okay. So it's going to be soon. Five years almost. Yeah, yeah. Wow. Okay. And then to. Yeah. So a on team Maki. I work as, as a senior advisor for, for a company called B, which is, global engineering company. 00:05:23:21 - 00:05:56:09 Unknown And I graduated from Tomsk in the summer of 2011, and I was also selected as the alumni of the year 2023. So last year, this year. Yeah. Yes. Good to be here. Yeah. So, let's talk a bit about what makes the company and specifically Tomsk, a city and a university worth exploring. So maybe we can start with, to hear us. 00:05:56:09 - 00:06:26:17 Unknown I understand you're a tom for a native, so. Yeah. What what made you choose, for a place to study under, what would you say are the main skills or experience you acquired from here? Yeah. Let's start with the first point. when I was, scouting for schools and the last year of high school, Tom kind of had a reputation of being being a good school and being, school. 00:06:26:17 - 00:07:04:16 Unknown That was hard to get in and and. Also, my father started in the predecessor of Tom, and he mostly had good experiences here. So I'm guessing that was, mostly about the challenge to just getting just cool. That's difficult to get in, but also the the reputation that comes with being a good school. Yeah. I'm, I am from the neighboring community of Gang Asylum, which is nowadays city finally. 00:07:04:18 - 00:07:32:05 Unknown So studying in Tom also had, like some financial benefits. I could, I could maybe stay home if things got bad. So I had a sort of safety net, which I'm guessing you didn't, you didn't have at all. So. So it was it was safe for me to studying in Denmark in that sense. And about the skills and experiences. 00:07:32:07 - 00:08:09:05 Unknown Well, apart from the obvious, like electrical engineering skills, those putting the other ones include, like problem solving mentality, like the facing life with, that's a challenge. That's not a I that's this like like I can't do this. But instead of thinking that, how can I do this, maybe that. And and of course, people skills and the connections between like peers on the students and the staff and all that. 00:08:09:07 - 00:08:33:06 Unknown So all the networks, all in all the net. Yes. Yeah. Yes, I value them highly. And they have been very, very useful after graduation many times. Yeah. that will actually bring me to the next point because in terms of, strategy, it has been written in that talk, promotes itself as a multidisciplinary and working life oriented university of applied sciences. 00:08:33:06 - 00:08:55:01 Unknown And, and we all we are often very proud of these, you know, active working life connections that we have. So do you agree with this claim? Would you think that, the role that Tom does play in this region in, in peer command, do you think that, how do you see the reputation, often amongst regional employers when you were looking for a job? 00:08:55:01 - 00:09:41:14 Unknown Did it did it matter that you came from Tom? I think Tom has a good reputation as a as a great educator. And, and with the ties that he has. So the with the local community, I think, it's well-respected in the, in the industry and at least on the engineering side, side. And I don't think that, Tom, on your CV is a negative thing, but I'd say up needs most useful, usually as an icebreaker, like the common ground is, is it's it's quite likely that the person interviewing you is also studies from Tom thumb or in Tampere University at some point. 00:09:41:16 - 00:10:10:05 Unknown So that is it's very useful as an icebreaker that well finding the common ground you have. Yeah, yeah. And according this survey that has that will is sent out to students, graduates, about 70% of them said that they had, well, who had the job at the time of graduation actually stayed in Pergamum. Also, Tom is a big provider of, kind of local work workforce, you know, I mean, siphoning. 00:10:10:05 - 00:10:37:10 Unknown Siphoning? Yes. People from all over Finland. Yes. World. Yes. To you. Yes. You could point. And also this, this is somehow also, I think, related to my next point, where I would like to bring Hamilcar into discussion. it's about Tom s role as the leading international University of Applied sciences and the fact that we want to grow internationally. 00:10:37:12 - 00:10:59:13 Unknown We want to become a major player in wooing students to come here. can you elaborate a bit, about how you found out about Tom? Peter. Tom and what specifically made you decide to come here? Because I think this is this is a very, very important questions. And I think our listeners are dying to hear this. 00:10:59:15 - 00:11:20:14 Unknown Yeah, I think it's it's a really good question. And I think I have a really interesting answer for it. because at least when I was coming to Finland, I should say that I did not know any others Sri Lankan who was living here or has even been here. So it was quite an interesting choice for me. A brave, but I didn't have my eyes set on Finland initially. 00:11:20:14 - 00:11:39:18 Unknown I did not know about it that Finland was so international at the time, but, but basically I had a conversation with my father, and then, he mentioned that, hey, Nordics are really good for environmental technology, and why not search? And also their way of life is very practical. And the engineer my my, my, that's an engineer as well. 00:11:39:18 - 00:12:04:23 Unknown And, he, he mentioned that, it's practical engineering here. So it's really, really important, that it's not only theory in life. so I took a look at this, and, environmental engineering was something, that special, I think, at least to me at the time. I love nature, and I like, to enjoy nature, and I like technology and engineering. 00:12:04:23 - 00:12:25:10 Unknown So I thought, okay, why not combine the two? so I can stay close to something that I love? Also, enjoying a good, career. So that's why I picked Umbc, because they were offering this that I could not find in so many other places in the in the world, I would say. So it was very interesting to me. 00:12:25:12 - 00:12:49:12 Unknown And so I applied and, thankfully, I got in and, I decided to come to Finland. So that's the, of course. and it was, scary to say the least. But I thought, it will I will be taking an opportunity to see the world so and learn a lot. So and I think I did, and I don't regret it at all. 00:12:49:14 - 00:13:13:22 Unknown Wow. When you first arrived, was it was it summer or winter? it was autumn. It just became autumn. Yeah. Yeah. It's. Do you had false hope? But, as I remember correctly, I think we've discussed this before in some other occasion that, you also had some other options. You know, initially, like, schools in the United States that you had been looked up. 00:13:14:02 - 00:13:38:19 Unknown this is like, quite different. I mean, it's a big leap from United States to Finland. yeah. It is. You know, have you ever thought of it, you know, since that. Yeah, I did, I did, I did after coming here and, I saw I thought about it and, yeah, I did get into a few schools in the States, thankfully, which offered me some scholarships as well, but I let it down to come to Finland. 00:13:38:21 - 00:14:03:01 Unknown because I thought, it's a unique place. it's a well, at least, at that point, that point, all I've heard is good about Finland, and still is. And, that's something special that a lot of people have not been. And I wanted to explore, you know, being young and everything. So. Yeah, it's hard to I not if I have the opportunity. 00:14:03:01 - 00:14:31:23 Unknown Yeah. I mean, everyone can go to states, but, you know, I mean, Finland, that's not for everybody. So. Yeah, that's all. Okay. I wonder if I want to I want to see what's different. Yes, I do everything the same way. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But, now, based on your experience of a five year, soon to be five years and also, this is also for on the this question, would you describe something I as an international city and Tomsk as an international school? 00:14:31:23 - 00:14:57:20 Unknown Is it just is this more like kind of. Big talk with no kind of, I don't know, substance in nature or how you how you want to put it. that's quite an interesting question. And I'll try to answer it, as best as I can. I think that, maybe I have a bit of an interesting take on it, but I'm not really sure what an international place should be like. 00:14:57:22 - 00:15:22:15 Unknown But I think that it's it's been very accommodating to me. So. And, but at least from my point of view, I came to learn about Finland. So as an international, person coming to Finland, I wanted to look. No, I still want to. I'm still learning so much about Finland that I did not know about. And I want to know how local life works. 00:15:22:16 - 00:15:53:10 Unknown what what culture Finland has. And I think that, maybe at that time it was a bit tough because of course, I was integrating from a totally different world. Yeah. Does Finland. And so it was a bit difficult. But over time it gets better and better and you start understanding, so that's a really beautiful thing. And it's a learning curve for me, that I am like, oh, okay. 00:15:53:10 - 00:16:21:04 Unknown So now I understand this is what I feel. and I think that Tampere is really nice. it's, it's very comfortable. So it's accommodating. Yeah. From your point of view. Yeah. So you haven't felt like, you know, a stranger here or. No, I mean, of course, I, I, I'm from a different world. Yes, yes. When I came here, I felt different, of course, but that didn't mean that I was not wanted here. 00:16:21:04 - 00:16:43:01 Unknown Yeah. I did not feel that. Okay. So it felt, it was a new place for me to explore. So I did not feel like, so in that sense, I would say that, yeah, it's welcoming. Good. Yeah. And what about on to you? You work in an international multinational company. how does this question, you know, figure in your mind? 00:16:43:03 - 00:17:14:04 Unknown I think company is on the verge of being a great international city. We have, mostly universities and software firms. Thank for it. They are great at gathering people here. And I think there's some still Nokia heritage lingering by because they did it first they they brought a lot of people from all over the world designing phones and, and stuff like that in here. 00:17:14:06 - 00:17:40:10 Unknown And then they also brought Lion Bridge here that translated all the all the manuals and stuff. Still a big company today. And I think also Dunc has grown internationally. When I was studying here, we had two, two English programs. We had the BBA and then then there was envy that, just started and there is so much more now. 00:17:40:10 - 00:18:20:05 Unknown Yeah, yeah, yeah. And, and I think that's the right direction. I don't necessarily think we should or can compete with Helsinki. and I think that's probably a good thing. This is a much smaller city, much more compact. And so I think it's easier to, to integrate people in a smaller setting as this, this everything is close by and, and everything is, I think, easier than in a bigger city. 00:18:20:07 - 00:18:49:09 Unknown So I think, I think we're doing a great job. Yeah. Yeah, I think so too. Yeah, definitely. But what about Hamacher when you were studying? what, in your opinion, what kind of measures were taken to support this kind of, internationalization of student life or. I mean, did you have any kind of integration programs or any kind of support system? 00:18:49:11 - 00:19:22:20 Unknown or was that kind of non-existent? I think at the time, as I remember, I don't think that there was anything like this to, for, for me at least. that's not of course, we had the student council, and that we could reach out to anything for anything but, program specifically. I don't recall it, and I, I, I really don't recall anything like this, but, something I do appreciate is that we were all of our courses had group work. 00:19:22:20 - 00:19:43:04 Unknown Maybe this might be a topic that some people might not agree with, of course, because the result is not always the most efficient, let's say. But, it gave me a chance to interact with all the students, in the class. And I think that was something that I valued a lot. And of course, the student culture here is really unique, I think. 00:19:43:04 - 00:20:08:06 Unknown And it's really cool, with the overalls and everything. So it's something new and you get to, interact with a lot of people like this. So I had no problem in the sense, at least I took all opportunity that I had to, to make friends and to to, to interact. And, I think it was very accommodating in this way. 00:20:08:08 - 00:20:25:10 Unknown And the teachers were great. Good. And I think, it has a lot to do about how you react and how you act and how you go about, yeah, in living your life because, I mean, no one's going to come and get you from home. I mean, you have to be active yourself and you have to try to find the ways. 00:20:25:10 - 00:20:46:18 Unknown And maybe in Finland, it's not so easy as it would be in somewhere else, you know. But still, I think that there is some responsibility in the student also in this. That's something that I was taught from Finland. Yes. I didn't have as a skill, I would say when I came here. Yes. Yeah. I think of, a lot of our society depends on you taking the first step. 00:20:46:19 - 00:21:11:22 Unknown If you need help, you need to first ask it. And then after you ask it, there's a lot of, programs and things going around that that can help you, but you need to take the first step, be the actual one, and find out what you need, what you need. And yeah, I think that is but that's that's again, the, the people skills. 00:21:12:00 - 00:21:34:01 Unknown you mentioned the group work. Is it. Well, it's well, it might not be the, the best one creating like. Yeah. Teaching results. Yeah. I think I think what it does create, those very important people skills. Yeah. a test of a little bit of real life. Yeah, yeah yeah yeah, yeah. Negotiating. Yeah, yeah. Compromise. Yeah. 00:21:34:03 - 00:21:57:18 Unknown Of course, we now know that Tomic has taken some steps forward with the talent pools program, because we get funding from the ministries and, you know, a lot of effort has been put to, you know, finding, these different ways of integrating international students. We have the Finnish language club, and we have the, you know, the friendship program, where you can find a Finnish friend or a family, you know. 00:21:57:19 - 00:22:33:11 Unknown Oh, yeah. To get to know the Finnish culture a bit better and also, you know, strong support to learn the language, which has been maybe a bit sidelined, you know, in the past. So this has all been integrated now. And, I think things have got better in, in that sense. But, I wanted to come back to this, traineeship thing because this is something that, from time to time comes up in the discussion that it is difficult for, international students who come Finland to find a traineeship placement, which then hinders them from graduating. 00:22:33:11 - 00:22:53:10 Unknown So how was it in New York state? Was it easy? did someone help you or did you find it yourself? it wasn't easy. but I think it's it's a common practice for everyone, whether you're an international or whether you're a local person. Yeah. young person trying to find a job. I think it's equally difficult. 00:22:53:13 - 00:23:25:02 Unknown Yes. And maybe not. not a common statement from an international student to say that, but I've met enough. I think, Finnish friends who have shared the same struggle that I've had. I think that, well, for me, I was fortunate enough to get an internship, for a short time. for a company in my first, first two semesters. 00:23:25:03 - 00:23:50:05 Unknown and I made a good connection there, and, and then second year, I didn't. I was very exhausted after corona. and I wanted to take a break from trying to get a job, but, couldn't work the summer, and then, I'm in my third year. sorry. after I finished the second summer, I was fresh. 00:23:50:07 - 00:24:15:12 Unknown So I think since August of that, or since autumn started until the next year. So, I was on it every single day. Yeah. Applying to jobs, getting rejections. And then for some miracle, connections reached out, which was, at that point, I had really given up as well. This is real. Like what I felt at that point. 00:24:15:12 - 00:24:38:16 Unknown And I think international students need to hear it. and I reached out to everyone who I could who has some sort of experience in the industry asking, okay, is my CV all right? Is that a particular way? What is what is the what is the system that they filled out even, because, I always think, of opportunity. 00:24:38:16 - 00:24:43:15 Unknown I think that, 00:24:43:17 - 00:25:04:04 Unknown I'm sorry, that that just because you don't speak Finnish doesn't mean that you will not get elected. I don't totally believe in that. Of course it can be a certain situation when you're applying to a specific job that requires Finnish. You need to know Finnish, but there must be something out there that you can do without that. 00:25:04:06 - 00:25:27:01 Unknown And, at that moment, because I couldn't master Finnish. Yes. I didn't give up about it. so I thought, okay, I want to learn Finnish as much as I can. That's my mentality. So I'll at least if the employer could understand that, it would give me a chance. So, because I'm not against learning it. Of course I'm here. 00:25:27:05 - 00:25:58:02 Unknown Yes. and then, that's basically how I ended up working as this. I'm a trainee for connections. that, they reached out and I had to. I actually asked my manager why they selected me in, I think what really interesting thing that he mentioned was that, I was not scared to learn. Yeah, that, he was like, that's because as a as a as a university student, you don't really know anything of the real world. 00:25:58:04 - 00:26:20:03 Unknown So you need to be kind of like a sponge to, to learn a lot. Yeah, definitely. Do you have any, thoughts about this? Because obviously you in your company, you also hire a lot of internationals and look for interns and, for some odd job positions. Or how do you look at this question? and the question of language, maybe not. 00:26:20:07 - 00:26:49:09 Unknown That is that is $1 million question. But I don't think we require Finnish unless the job specifically requires you to know, as you said, some, some, some jobs just require you to communicate with the customer directly with the customer, of course. But we being, designing, consulting, we have a lot of like, technical jobs that do not require you to communicate with the customer. 00:26:49:11 - 00:27:30:07 Unknown And, and in that point, the skills becomes become more important than the language you speak. yeah. We we play. Let's say we have 100 positions each summer for the students, usually third and fourth year or fifth year. In the case of universities, like near the end of your your education, we also use what we call, like a competence resource centers and that we have, we have an international pool. 00:27:30:09 - 00:28:06:12 Unknown we can share some of the workload. we have and, and gain, gain knowledge from, for example, when we work, consulting and designing a tram tram system in Helsinki, we brought people from Hong Kong and and from the States that have, have very much experience with designing, those particular environmental challenges that with a lot of, undulations, not, not flat ground. 00:28:06:13 - 00:28:42:23 Unknown And, people in Hong Kong are very, very, used to designing tramways that go up and down the hills and, and we had that experience in the companies that we used to. And they did finish. but, but they knew, they knew the design specs and they knew the dimensions that they used, they need, needed to fill the fit, the designs in and, and then the, then we had a Finnish guy go the designs and, and localize everything and translate everything. 00:28:42:23 - 00:29:13:23 Unknown The Finnish. So and our company also supports like a job exchange. Like you could go work in a different country. We had at least two people left for, for Australia for. Yeah. And we have, we have hired some Swedes. We have hired people from UK spending summers not usually not winters for some reason, some reason they usually come, come in the, in the spring and leave in the autumn. 00:29:14:01 - 00:30:00:17 Unknown But yeah, yeah. And, but I think we could do more in promoting our, our post and our, our openings for international talents. But I think that that leads to, usually to an interesting group dynamic where you with the whole team needs to decide if, if we can or want to work in English instead of Finnish. And that might be a 12 people group that needs to do things differently if, if and when they decide to hire people that might not be fluent, my mind might not know it at all. 00:30:00:17 - 00:30:29:05 Unknown Finnish. So that changes the dynamic a bit. In the in the office, not so much in teams environment where we have a lot of, like I said, international teams that we use and and and some of those teams are all obviously held in English, English also. But but the situation in the office, it's it creates a lot of like you need to speak to the guy English on the go. 00:30:29:07 - 00:30:59:16 Unknown Whatever. even doing lunch or coffee breaks and that can be quite demanding, especially if you're not used to speaking in English. so that that involves, sometimes a quite big group of people that need to do start doing things differently. And that sometimes can be a big ask. But I think, I think. 00:30:59:18 - 00:31:30:01 Unknown If you if you want to like, harnessed, the talent internationally because we as a, as a Finnish nation are not that big of a talent pool. And I think most of us recognize the need to bring more smart people to to work smarter, not harder, as they say. Yeah, yeah. And I think this is a two way street. 00:31:30:01 - 00:31:56:15 Unknown You know, this means that the Finnish society has to adopt on the Finnish workplaces, have to change their mentality and their kind of willingness to hire international standards. And yes, you know, talking to English, you know, during the coffee breaks and, you know, at lunch, but also from the point of view of the international talent who comes here, the willingness to learn and the, you know, open up to the, you know, Finnish language, the Finnish culture. 00:31:56:18 - 00:32:23:14 Unknown Yeah. So meet somewhere in the halfway. I think this is. Yeah, what we need to do because we can't expect the other side to do everything, you know. Yes, yes. 100% correct. Yes. And I think, my, my, but my personal view point is that, international students may forget that, Finnish people's first language is not English. 00:32:23:16 - 00:32:58:06 Unknown Yeah, because you're not very good at it compared to most of the other countries. I think everyone is super educated in Finland. And, the literacy level is very high and therefore I think this, this, unspoken assumption that it's very easy for everyone to speak the language that's not even their second language. Yes, but I think. You know, it's it's not easy because it's basically like asking maybe not, but. 00:32:58:08 - 00:33:20:20 Unknown Yeah, if, if, if, if a Finnish person comes to my country and then, asking my people to speak in English also, it's a similar thing. So yeah, you're absolutely right. There has to be immigrant. there has to be Finnish and also English. So if both languages can be spoken up to a certain level, this would be a very good. 00:33:20:22 - 00:33:49:05 Unknown Yes. And also I think that, the employers should encourage, even if you don't need the Finnish language in the job that you're doing, they still encourage you to learn the Finnish language, because ultimately, I think, you know, in terms of your integration and you're living your life here and building your life in Finland, you can't escape the fact that you have to know the things you have to do, know the language of the country are living in, whether it's China or India or Germany or whatever. 00:33:49:05 - 00:34:30:20 Unknown Yeah, yeah. So you could you you survive with English. Yes. Yeah. That's us because as you say, we all learn is cool. But but, knowing Finnish just makes everything so much easier. Usually. Yes. You know, starting from the, starting from the mentality that you are greeted with, because if you are foreign and start the conversations in English, people tend to get like, like very defensive and unsure of and slow it words and and and thing. 00:34:31:00 - 00:34:54:17 Unknown It's sort of like pressuring or maybe the conversation doesn't usually flow that much. whether or all you need to do is greet them in Finnish. Yeah. And I think that that that also works is an icebreaker as well. Even if, even if it's not like, like, like perfect Finnish. the, the the willingness to to try and. 00:34:54:20 - 00:35:27:08 Unknown Yeah, to show the, you know, I don't know if you could call appreciation, but, yeah. The, the yeah. The mentality that I'm, I'm trying to meet you halfway. Exactly. That works wonders sometimes. Yeah. Yeah. But what about in your workplace is do they offer like Finnish learning opportunities. I mean courses or you know for the, for the international employees. 00:35:27:10 - 00:35:56:14 Unknown Yeah. yes. Yes, yes they do. They offer and I think it's encouraged. but it's, it's, it's I, I think I work with quite a lot of hinge and, working languages, English. So I haven't spoken to them. in one working conditions, and Finnish, but they're very open to it. And like, and they said that it's, it when I greet them and Finnish, there's a smile on their face. 00:35:56:16 - 00:36:26:21 Unknown It's it's a bright day. well, it's the fact that you greet, you know, that makes us happy, you know? Yeah. And I would I would feel the same if someone comes, to me and says something in my language. Yes, I feel really good. Yes. Honestly, if it's warm, good. Icebreaker. Usually together. Yeah. yeah. And and also about done for the before, as I said, like, I've, I've, I've had that and it's it's really important and the company is definitely, encouraging learning Finnish employees here. 00:36:26:23 - 00:36:50:22 Unknown Yeah. Yeah. Good. I don't know about our company. I haven't, I haven't needed yeah the services but probably do we do I don't know. Yeah. But I think it is in the interest of the company also because yeah in terms of keeping power and you know, the fact that it's the keeping factor for the employee. 00:36:51:02 - 00:37:29:15 Unknown Yeah. Yeah. And sort of funny, we had a guy in from UK, that and he was sometimes a little bit even frustrated with us Finnish. And every time he would start talking in Finnish and try, try to get a, get his ideas across in broken Finnish, we would transfer to English ourselves, to, to make him feel that he he's understood better and he was he was so frustrated. 00:37:29:17 - 00:38:00:10 Unknown Let me let me try let me let me try and fail and maybe get better at it. Yeah, yeah. This is a very good point that you should be patient and let people to try and make the mistakes. And yeah, easiest way, the best way to learn is to make mistakes. Yeah, yeah. That's true okay I know first the language question, then moving on to professional mentoring, which you are both familiar with because, you have both done it a bit different ways. 00:38:00:10 - 00:38:19:20 Unknown But anyways, so, in many of the surveys we have done for Tomic alumni, they have indicated that the most important way for them of being an alumni is to mentor. This is something that people always say to me that, yeah, if I want to be involved, this is the way that I want to do it. 00:38:19:20 - 00:38:40:06 Unknown I want to mentor students, and I want to give them my advise and tell about my career and maybe help them to find their way into working life. So, do you have taken part in several mentoring programs here at SMC over the years? So can you tell us a bit what made you become a mentor in the first place, and what has mentoring given you? 00:38:40:08 - 00:39:15:05 Unknown Yeah, that's a funny story. I. I quit from the board of the Alumni Association for time purposes. I just didn't feel I had the time that it needed. So I had spare time. Then I saw an ad in LinkedIn and then I didn't have any spare time. Once again, the the first first training session, orienting session, whatever, was super fun. 00:39:15:07 - 00:39:50:11 Unknown And I kind of sucked in just although all the people once again, it felt like being back in school. It's kind of like learning together and chance to polish practice my English, as always. Welcome. And then suddenly I was making new friends, building new connections with the added benefit of of of helping people and sharing my knowledge and yeah, so we knew in my books. 00:39:50:13 - 00:40:20:00 Unknown Yeah. Okay. What is given me. Yeah. small feelings of success, people that I am mentoring, getting, apprenticeship positions and jobs and it always, take a tiny slice of the credit to myself. I was part of making that happen. Yeah, it feels good. Yeah. And of course, like a mentoring is important also to native friends. 00:40:20:00 - 00:40:54:14 Unknown You know, I'm not saying that it's only for the for the international students who benefit from it. I think everyone benefits from mentoring. Whether you come from Finland or from outside, you know, but, but I think specifically for the international students who come here, they often they don't know much about how the the workings of the working life, you know, they don't know about how the CV should look like, how to write the application, how should I, you know, maybe if if I can call the CEO in Finland and say who I am and, you know, I want to work for you these type of questions, they have a lot of these. 00:40:54:14 - 00:41:34:20 Unknown The the needs of the, let's say, international talents are usually much more practical. Yeah. and the needs of the Finnish students and newly graduated people, they usually require some sort of encouragement and mental support and, and lean in and not so much practical skills. But how do I get my CV to look like. Right. Because they've been filling up the CV since they were 15, trying to get some jobs, to, to get some money to spend. 00:41:34:22 - 00:42:00:22 Unknown Yeah. So they have been practicing and polishing and gathering their surveys, maybe even as long as ten years when they graduate. So most of them have quite good CV. So very like in, in a practical way, good. Yeah. They are structured in a way that is like the meta and that they like my CV. When I graduate, it looks nothing like my CV today. 00:42:00:22 - 00:42:24:05 Unknown Yeah. Like even the structure is very, very different. Yeah. and when you're doing it and polishing it each year and each year, each summer. Yeah, just get better at it. Yeah. And also I think the, the kind of procedure of, looking for a job is more familiar to Finns because that's because they have parents. Yes, yes, yes. 00:42:24:09 - 00:42:46:11 Unknown they have the connections. They can ask somebody else for duties. Yeah. Yeah. They don't have that kind of network. Then, you know, I say people I was talking about. Yeah. Yeah. So part of it. Yeah, it's a, it's a kind of different thing. Yeah. Starting from scratch. Yes. I must be hard. Yes. So hats off to you, guy. 00:42:46:13 - 00:43:10:10 Unknown Yeah. But, you know, you, you also participated in, in the mentoring, but this was a bit different from aunty's experience because Auntie was involved in this mentoring program for several months. Yeah. Whereas you only attended this one time event where we, we did this online and it was, also for time, students from these, English speaking programs. 00:43:10:10 - 00:43:29:06 Unknown So, what would you say, in your opinion, the benefits of this kind of one time session versus longer commitment, because sometimes people say that, yeah, I would really like to do mentoring, but I don't have the time. And, you know, then I have to meet with this person, like every week. And, you know, I don't know if I can do that. 00:43:29:06 - 00:43:53:20 Unknown So then we have this kind of option of just giving like this one time kick set to say so how how how did you feel about this? I think, I think it's good. Really good. first of all, I didn't have an opportunity like that. So I think it's something that's really good, and I would have appreciated it as a student back then. 00:43:53:22 - 00:44:16:00 Unknown but I also think that it's really important. For example. Well, I'm speaking purely for international student. Yes. Maybe they might not agree with me, but at least this is what I personally felt. that, I think we were talking about this, that we have to take action ourselves. So this independent was, finished with, yes. 00:44:16:01 - 00:44:37:06 Unknown Is with it, but at least I did not have that skill when I came here. I learned it over time, and that was hard to grasp because. But at least from where I come from, it was, it was taken away from me. we were we were taught the exact opposite. Yeah. So coming to Finland was a big culture shock in this way. 00:44:37:08 - 00:45:08:09 Unknown And I think this one time, interaction with the student for mentorship, well, we as a as a mentor, we could say some things, but they also need to push from the side, to ask very critical, very important questions. And they need to come out of that comfort zone, which and, you know, back then, I would be very scared to ask these questions from someone, even though they're like, really important questions for me that I would, it might be about the job. 00:45:08:09 - 00:45:37:22 Unknown How the CV looks. I would say, oh, I don't want to trouble this person. I don't want to do that. maybe it's not respectful to us. This just cultural thing. Yes. Yeah. And I think, if there's any international student listening, you have to break those boundaries. and I think it's a good thing to break those boundaries, to kind of, if there is a mentor or someone else in the industry that you meet, it's really important to ask all these important questions and nothing. 00:45:37:22 - 00:46:07:23 Unknown It's a stupid question. Yeah. and that's really important. Yeah. And you, you are already in know quite a bit of disadvantage because Finns, these since preschool, before breeze preschool are like, enrolled in this. In this you can ask for anything. You can always ask the teacher for anything. Well, again asking nation. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We, 00:46:08:04 - 00:46:38:01 Unknown Yeah, that's that's a big, big thing in our culture that if you see the president out in the shops, which you can, which is mind blowing to some foreign people, you can you can approach the president, shake his hand, ask him and almost anything at the spot. And that's the big mentality in, you know, in our like you said, we have a lot of proverbs about it's not no such thing as a stupid question. 00:46:38:06 - 00:47:16:22 Unknown Yeah, only only stupid answers and all that. And we are from a very small age. We are encouraged to question things, to ask questions, to challenge, let's say, or experience people and challenge to the status quo. That why does the why does this need to be done this way? and I think this so one of the, excuse me, one of the big driving forces in our society is the, the ability to question things to why do we do this this way? 00:47:17:00 - 00:47:45:11 Unknown And why won't we do this that way? Yeah. So would you. What would you say to to our listeners who might be now thinking, about becoming a mentor based on your experiences? Would you say that it's like a burden or something, or would you like to kind of maybe say that it's worth it and you should try try it or how do you say I'd say try it out if you feel intrigued. 00:47:45:13 - 00:48:12:16 Unknown Help is always help is no small part here, I agree. Yes. Good. So finally we have, come to an end of this podcast. It has been really a pleasure to talk to you about this. And we could go maybe on and on. but, if you have any last words, if you want to say something to our listeners, you feel free to do it now. 00:48:12:18 - 00:48:41:18 Unknown If not, then we can just wrap this up. yeah, I think we're gonna wrap. I don't have anything to say anymore. I think we talked about really important points, and, yeah, we've been through a lot of things. So. Yes. Yeah. Good for me. Yes. But I think as a conclusive points, we can say that, you know, as an international, you know, you should be open minded about coming to Finland, coming to Tomsk. 00:48:41:20 - 00:49:05:09 Unknown ask a lot of questions, look for a man to be and, be active. Yeah. Be active. Learn Finnish. Yeah, yeah. Yes. So it also might be a very fun thing to do, to do, to sort of, sort of like, response podcast somewhere down the line. so if you have any questions, share them with us somewhere, which I ask them to. 00:49:05:09 - 00:49:25:20 Unknown Yes yes yes. Yeah. Really? Really. Yes. Yeah. We, we should take up on that and organize a next one. Yeah. Based on the questions from our listeners. Yeah. Yeah. Excellent. Thank you very much for today. And to our listeners at the end. Thank you and bye for now. My, my my, my.